Motorcyclists in Advanced Stop Lines

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This topic contains 11 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  jamiafqc 5 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #74993

    radii8
    Participant

    I’m on a roll :D

    Before a riot ensues, let me say that I appreciate cyclists are ALSO car drivers, pedestrians and motorcyclists. But my issue concerns how these are being used and how useful they are to cyclists.

    I ask you – is there any point having ASLs when motorcyclists and other road users use them to the detriment of cyclists? Recently, along High Holborn at the junction of Grays Inn Road, a motorcyclist turned left on green right over me without warning. Had he stayed behind the Advanced Stop Line this would not have been possible. He narrowly knocked me off my bike.

    Where are the traffic police? (are there any left?!)

    #85205

    ashbro
    Participant

    I don’t have any objections to motorcyclists in the blue box but cars do cheese me off. I think the main problem is that many motorists aren’t aware what the ASL’s are there for (though you might hope that the big picture of a bicycle would give them a clue!). To be fair, they appeared from nowhere and the majority of drivers haven’t read the highway code since they took their test decades ago. I would like to see some of the mayor’s advertising budget spent on some short TV ads and/or a poster campaign aiming to educate drivers about the role of the blue boxes.

    #85206

    martinc
    Participant

    ASLs are a great idea but need policing. Taxi drivers and buses have no excuse, they should be sacked if they break the rules, and it should be part of their training. If the police could just gently caution other offenders, it would be a great help in making ASLs useful for the purpose they were painted on the roads for.

    #85207

    urban
    Participant

    I often politely tell taxi drivers that they shouldn’t be in my box. I often get a hail of vulgar abuse hurled back at me. Worth reporting to TfL?

    #85208

    ashbro
    Participant

    The problem is that, so far as I am aware, (and I may be wrong) there has been no legislation passed about the blue boxes. At present they are simply ‘advisory’ (rather like the priority seats on the tube or buses). In other words, if a motorist chooses to ignore them, there is nothing anyone (police or otherwise) can do.

    #85209

    PM
    Participant

    There was no need to pass legislation for advance stop lines, as the existing legislation already covered them.

    A stop line is a stop line, and you MUST NOT, pass over a stop line when there is a red light. So a motorist (or mororcyclist) approaching traffic lights with an advance stop line MUST stop at the first stop line that they reach.

    So if they have not passed the first (the advance) stop line when the lights go red, then they MUST stop before going over the (advance) stop line into the cycle box. If they have already passed over the (advance) stop line but have not fully passed over the second stop line, then they MUST stop and not pass over the second line, so can legally end up in the cycle box.

    A cyclist doesn’t pass over the advance stop line, because there should be a cycle only lane on the left which doesn’t have a stop line, so they can enter the box legally, and then wait at the second line.

    So no legislation is needed, just enforcement.

    #85210

    Stuc
    Participant

    I guess that’s why there’s a dotted entry line for cyclists- though I guess that also means it’s technically illegal to enter the area from anywhere else. Sometimes I find it’s safer to enter from the right, especially if there’s a large vehicle at the front.. and less fumey than waiting behind..

    #85211

    bbb
    Participant

    Replying to @Stuc‘s post:

    Nearly always safer to enter from the right! I’ll only go down the left if the lights have just turned red and there’s no chance of vehicles pulling away as I’m filtering.

    I actually think asls are lethal, as are on-road cycle lanes, as they encourage cyclists to undertake large vehicles and stop just in front of them, or if the asl is full, stop just on the near side. Both are blind spots for hgv drivers and cyclists have been killed whilst using them perfectly legally. Fumey maybe, but nearly always safer to wait behind something big.

    #85212

    bbb
    Participant

    Sorry, and back on topic, I don’t have much of a problem with motorbikes in the asl, provided they don’t fill it up so cyclists can’t get in.

    From the highway code:

    Advanced stop lines. Some signal-controlled junctions have advanced stop lines to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic. Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times, e.g. if the junction ahead is blocked. If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red, you MUST stop at the second white line, even if your vehicle is in the marked area. Allow cyclists time and space to move off when the green signal shows.

    [Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10, 36(1) & 43(2)]

    So any vehicle can be in an asl, provided they entered it before the light turned red. Otherwise it’s the same offence as jumping a red light.

    #85213

    radii8
    Participant

    ^ thank you for the clarification bbb :wink:

    #85214

    radii8
    Participant

    So… surprised to see big majority to ‘police them’.

    What forms of ‘policing them’ do people think work best? For example (not sure how this would work) cameras? Remote policing? Physical law enforcement presence on the streets? Which junctions should they focus on?

    #85215

    jamiafqc
    Participant

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